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Thursday, March 23, 2006

We the people ... don't speak English anymore / Les Americains ne parlent plus anglais (En/Fr)

California St., San Francisco
These flags don't look it, but they are absolutely enormous!
Ces drapeaux n'en n'ont pas l'air sur la photo mais ils sont absolument énormes!


Today I feel like ranting. Some days are like that, you can't help it... Do you, too, have these days where anything at all turns into an excuse to rant, or is it just me?

Aujourd'hui j'ai envie de gueuler. Ca vous arrive pas d'avoir des jours, comme ça, ou n'importe quoi devient une excuse pour gueuler ou bien je suis la seule?

begin rant mode here: //
début de gueulante ici: //

I just got this in the mail. (Sorry about the quality of the pictures, by the way.) As usual, double-click to enlarge or right-click to steal, you know the drill... Unless, of course, you have a Mac, in which case, you're totally on your own ;-)

Je viens juste de recevoir ceci dans mon courrier. (Au fait, désolée pour la mauvaise qualité des photos.) Comme toujours, cliquez deux fois à gauche pour agrandir ou une fois à droite pour piquer la photo, pareil que d'habitude... Sauf si vous avez un Mac, alors là , faut vous débrouiller tous seuls ;-)

Where was I? Oh, yeah, here we go. Got this in the mail:
Qu'est-ce que je disais? Ah oui. Reçu dans mon courrier:





Believe it or not, the purpose of this mailing is to let American people know that they can apply for a U.S. passport at the Post Office. By the way, when I say "American" I mean "citizen of United States" in case you were wondering.

Croyez-moi si vous voulez, mais le but de cette campagne est de faire savoir aux Américains qu'ils peuvent faire leur demande de passeport U.S. à la poste. Au fait, quand je dis "Américains" je veux dire les citoyens des Etats-Unis, au cas où vous vous posiez la question.

My question, then, is why are there Spanish words printed in big, bold letters, and why is the English translation underneath written so much smaller? Has English become optional now, and are they just doing us a favor by translating underneath and that's why the font is much smaller, so we get the message?!!

La question que je me suis posée en regardant ce bout de papier, c'est pourquoi c'est écrit en gros et en majuscules en espagnol, et en tout petit en dessous en anglais? Est-ce que l'anglais est devenu facultatif dans ce pays, et ils nous font une fleur en traduisant en dessous, mais tout petit pour qu'on comprenne bien le message?!!



Don't get me wrong, I know that California spoke Spanish first, and I am well aware of the high number of Spanish speaking people around. I also don't have a problem with various every-day forms being translated in the back to help people figure out what they are saying. If it helps, go for it! Tutors in public schools? Sure. Oh, and, by the way, don't even think I have a problem with the Hispanic community, because I really don't. That's not the point at all, so don't even go there.

Attention, je sais bien que la Californie parlait espagnol en premier, et je suis aussi tout à fait consciente du nombre important de gens qui parlent espagnol dans le coin. Que les formulaires soient traduit au dos pour aider les gens à comprendre ce qui est écrit dessus ne me dérange pas du tout, au contraire, si ça rend service, je suis pour. Que l'on mette des tuteurs bilingues dans les écoles publiques? Aucun problème. Au fait, n'allez pas non plus penser que je n'aime pas les gens d'origine Hispanic, car c'est pas du tout ça non plus. Ca n'a rien à voir avec.



But why is a form about how to obtain your U.S. passport NOT written MOSTLY in ... English? If you have a U.S. passport, shouldn't you be able to READ ENGLISH?!!! We're not that close to the border, really, and even if we were, I think I would still be irritated by this piece of paper!

Mais pourquoi ce formulaire qui ne concerne que les citoyens des Etats Unis et personne d'autre n'est-il pas écrit PRINCIPALEMENT en Anglais? Si vous avez un passport US, ne devriez vous pas étre capable de LIRE L'ANGLAIS?!!! Nous ne sommes vraiment pas une ville frontalière, et même si nous l'étions, je crois que ce morceau de papier m'énerverait quand même!



In order to obtain your U.S. Citizenship, you are legally required to know basic English (I know there are loopholes, but generally you are). They don't ask you to write a thesis or anything, they just want you to know basic stuff so you can get by in your every day life, and yes, that includes being able to read the damn forms when you vote. (Imagine that! The nerve!)

Pour obtenir la nationalité Americaine, on exige la connaissance de quelques bases en Anglais (je sais qu'il y a des exceptions mais de façon générale, oui, c'est demandé). On ne vous demande pas une thèse, mais juste assez de vocabulaire pour fonctionner quasi normalement dans la vie de tous les jours, ce qui veut dire aussi être capable de comprendre ce qui est écrit quand on va voter. (Quel culot, vous ne trouvez pas?!)

And it's not just this piece of paper. Have you ever tried calling some ... ahem... government agencies, lately? "If you wish to continue in English, press 2 ..." Give me break!

Et puis y'a pas que ce bout de papier. Quand on téléphone a certaines hum ... agences du gouvernement, c'est pareil! "Pour continuer en anglais, appuyez sur le numéro 2..." Quand meme!

And besides, why are they sending correspondence in Spanish in this neighborhood? There is not one Spanish speaking family around here! Now, look here, if you're gonna make Spanish the language of the land, that's fine with me, go ahead and make it mandatory, and I'll go just learn Spanish, I don't care. But don't say English is mandatory, and then make us jump through hoops to access information in English!

En plus, pourquoi ils nous envoient de la correspondance en espagnol dans ce quartier alors qu'il n'y a meme pas une seule famille qui parle espagnol dans le coin! Bon, ceci dit, si l'espagnol doit devenir la langue officielle, moi je veux bien, ça me dérange pas plus que ça, mais alors faut le dire à l'avance! Venez pas nous dire que l'anglais est obligatoire et ensuite nous faire faire des efforts supplémentaires pour acceder aux informations Anglais, ben non, merde!

And to those who decide to immigrate to another country and become a citizen, here is my message: make an effort to learn the damn language! Is it gonna be hard? Yes, probably (hey, I'm still working on it *every* day!) But, hey, guess what, it's even harder if you don't try at all; the government forms might be bilingual, but the opportunities are not.

Et pout ceux qui décident d'aller vivre dans un pays et obtenir la nationalité, faites donc un effort pour apprendre la langue un minimum, merde! Est-ce difficile? Oui, sans doute (J'apprends *tous* les jours!). Mais vous savez, c'est encore bien plus dur de ne pas essayer du tout. Les formulaires du gouvernement sont peut-être bilingue, mais les occasions ne le sont pas.

Ooooh, that felt good! Now, I guess I'll go for a walk and see if I can find some new pictures to feed the blog. With a little luck, Blogger will let me upload at last, although, you never know... BLOGGER HASN'T BEEN VERY GOOD AT LETTING ME UPLOAD ANYTHING LATELY AND EVEN TODAY, I CAN'T UPLOAD A SIMPLE !$@!@#$ PICTURE WITHOUT GIVING IT 3 HOURS!!!!

Ouf, ça fait du bien! Bon, maintenant je peux aller me promener et voir si je peux vous rapporter des nouvelles photos pour le blog. Avec un peu de chance, Blogger me laissera les télécharger, quoique, on sait jamais ... BLOGGER N'A PAS ETE TRES COOPERATIF DERNIEREMENT ET MEME AUJOURD'HUI JE NE PEUX PAS METTRE DE NOUVELLES PHOTOS SANS Y PASSER 3 HEURES $!@$@# !!!!

//END rant mode.
// Fin de gueulante.

In the meantime, if you have an opinion on the above, or if you simply feel like ranting about something , go for it! You'll see how much better you'll feel afterwards! :-)

En attendant, si vous avez envie de partager votre point de vue, ou si vous avez tout simplement envie de gueuler, allez y, vous genez pas! Vous aller voir comme ça fait du bien! :-)

Photography from the USCI's website

By the way, for those of you who are interested in Citizenship and/or immigration to the States, and since you've been patient enough to read this far:

Citizenship Requirements : this private attorney's website seems very clear and easy to navigate.

Immigration Services : the official website. All your questions answered in one place. Get your information there, and then run your file by a reputable lawyer. It'll be money well spent.

The Complete PDF Guide to Naturalization 60 some pages, in English, but there are other languages available on the INS's website

How to find an attorney from the California Bar's website

37 Comments:

Blogger brigetoun said...

le même pragmatisme qui veut que certaines standardistes de cabinets d'affaire à Paris ne vous parlent qu'anglais, même si elles sont françaises et votre correspondant itou, et la boite non moins. Je fulminais chaque fois. Pour blogger aujourd'hui il voulait bien des photos mais pas du texte. Avec de l'entêtement

11:27 AM  
Blogger Sardinette said...

oui je trouve ca incroyable aussi!!! meme pour le permis de conduire, on peut le passer en tagalog!!!
pour moi je pense que c'est un "effort" des administrations pour accomoder tout le monde (on a tellement peur d'un proces pour discrimination hein...) mais c'est aussi pour maintenir les gens qui ne parlent pas anglais dans leur langue natale, et par consequent dans des boulots subalternes.(je pense aux latinos partout dans les cuisines de restaurants et sur les sites de construction...). Je me souviens j'etais choquee de voir la tele avec des chaines pour les latinos entierement en espagnol, faites pour la population latino immigree...(ce sont des subsidiaires de nbc, abc,etc pour les latinos...)
Egalement quand je me suis mariee, la personne a la mairie etait phillipino, et je n'ai rien pige de ce qu'elle nous a deblatere durant la ceremonie... incroyable! ;))))

3:24 PM  
Blogger Tomate Farcie said...

Sardinette: t'es sure que t'es mariée et qu'elle ne t'a pas plutot fait membre d'une organisation ceci ou cela? ;-)

3:33 PM  
Blogger Terra Vecchia said...

moi mon ras le bol c'est les americains qui veulent nous apprendre a cuisinier en france c'est tout pour le reste
j'ai rever new york sitting on a floor et allons ceuillir des paquerettes au pays des réves de juliette

3:49 PM  
Blogger Michael said...

LOLOLOL Tomate! This has to be one of your best posts ever. As I'm back in Florida for the moment, I can tell you that similar things go on here as well. BUT, the one thing that really cracks me up are the immigration forms you get on the airplane entering the U.S. Questions like, "Have you ever committed mass murder while importing drugs into this country stashed in the same bag as the over $10,000 you're not supposed to be carrying with you?" really make ME rant. I probably should check "yes" each time to see if they ever read it even.

4:52 PM  
Blogger Elisabeth said...

This stuff is a bit funny, indeed. Sad, but funny. I am absolutely against a law or an amendment to the constitution that would make English the official language of the United States, but the government could start saving money by avoiding sending those documents to households where English is the main language. My tax money is definitely NOT being spent wisely.

I agree about learning the language of the country to which you immigrate, but I have nothing against a community also trying to maintain its own language and identity - as long as it does not overly interfere with its assimilation into the main stream culture. I guess France does have a philosophy about that towards its own immigrants.

I have never really lived in a heavily Hispanic area, so I probably don't even know what I am talking about.

Most people probably do not need an attorney to become a U.S. citizen. I did it all by myself, after I realized that I could get over swearing that I had never belonged to the communist party (which is true, I have never been a member, but the question just bothered me big time and made me postpone becoming a citizen by some 25 years.) And yes, even though I had received a B.A. Summa Cum Laude in Political Science from the University of Delaware, I still had to answer those stupid questions about the American political system, and I had to write the sentence "The Children are playing in the school yard" or something like that. True insanity, really.

And yes, Blogger is still being a bit volatile. I had some problems in my attempts to post pictures this morning.

5:46 PM  
Blogger Louis la Vache said...

Welcome to Mexifornia.

6:38 PM  
Blogger Tomate Farcie said...

Elisabeth said: "I have never really lived in a heavily Hispanic area ..."

Well, that's just it, neither do I! And if there are hispanic families around, then let's spend money on tutoring their kids if they need after school programs to get up to speed, or other kind of programs designed to *help* not to hinder!

By the way, E., what's wrong with a law saying that English should be the official language? The laws of the land are already written in English; shouldn't the official language be the same? What do you see it as a negative thing? I'm not sure I understand your view point, there, would you explain, please?

About the US Citizenship: that is true, you can present your file yourself and it is relatively easy ... if your case is clean and straightforward, for instance if you are married to a US CITIZEN, have been a resident for a given number of years (see the links I posted, it tells you exactly what the requirements are). However, for all those other expats who have iffy visas and not-so-clear cut situations, DO RUN YOUR FILE BY A LAWYER and save yourself a lot of grief. On occasion, I get an email or two asking me for advice... Asking an expat for advice is a good starting point, but NO SUBSITUTE FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I don't mean to advertise for lawyers here (Gosh, I really don't mean that!!!) but sometimes, they're useful.

6:55 PM  
Blogger Tomate Farcie said...

By the way, Michael, thank you! I almost deleted the entire post. Glad I made you laugh a little!

Just one question... these forms, were they in English? ;-)

9:38 PM  
Anonymous Arnaud H said...

There is no official language in the US. That's right. The United States has no official language, unlike other countries.

That error is in my opinion no big deal. It rarely happens and I think it shouldn't undermine the effort the US and state authorities generally make to accomodate its residents or citizens who don't speak very good English. After all, you can take the driving test in French in California if you ask for it.

Whereas French authorities are generally not very accomodating with its residents or citizens who don't speak very good French.

1:16 AM  
Blogger Michael said...

Yes tomate, as far as I remember, the forms they give out before boarding an airplane in another country for the U.S. are in English. Maybe they exist in spanish or other languages, but I believe they are in English.

Regarding culture, etc., I'm sure you've heard that France is debating another law right now to require Apple, Sony, and someone else to open their source codes for their downloadable music. They want the music to be shareable, but Apple's argument has been so far that you can burn a CD and then share it all you want. The big discussion seems to be that if they mandate this, then other (french) companies could compete and therefore ensure that the music that is available online "conforms".

So, the more international countries become, the more they seek to maintain an identity (language, culture). I don't know what to think, but I do know here in S. Florida, the first thing you see when you get off the plane at Miami International Airport is a big fat sign that says "Bienvenidos a los Estados Unidos de América".

1:52 AM  
Blogger Elisabeth said...

Tomate: I am against a law or constitutional amendment that would make English the "official" language of the U.S. because most of those who advocate this kind of law are xenophobes. Period. This could absolutely lead to some form of mild persecution of those for whom English is not their native language - will not speaking English then turn into some sort of "un-American" activity?

I read some of the most preposterous comments, btw, a few days ago, about the "usefulness" or "necessity" for Americans to study foreign languages on Superfrenchie's blog. Bu that's another matter altogether.

6:55 AM  
Blogger Tomate Farcie said...

Well, there's got to be some middle ground somewhere. I've never been "xenophobe" in my life, but I think I'd support an amendment making English the official language, only because the laws are already written in English, and you gotta have some uniform way for people to communicate, so we might as well pick English.

Come to think of it, I don't care what the official language is, so long as I'm clear about what it is.

Xenophoby will always exist no matter what.

Hey, I just had a thought... can you picture Bush addressing the nation in Chinese Mandarin? Now that would be kind of cool, and I think I'd totally make time to watch that!

Thanks you guys for the comments! (I will check out that post on SF's blog, thanks)

9:04 AM  
Anonymous Arnaud H said...

Michael,
Actually, the US customs and immigration forms exist in many other languages. I've often seen them in French, for instance, when aboard a flight that took off from France. Airlines stock them in language they deem relevant, although sometimes they run short of the localized versions. But at entry you can request them in other languages than English - they have them translated in literally dozens of languages.

10:11 AM  
Blogger Michel said...

Hi Tomate,

We have he same kind of problem here in France...Everything is written in english ! ;-)

Michel

11:56 AM  
Blogger DoctorDentons said...

Elisabeth...
I am always leery of people that are too quick to assign "labels" such as Xenophobe to others without knowing the person or persons...that said, the little sentence that you deemed "true insanity" seems to have benefitted you rather well for the two seconds it took you to write it.

12:59 PM  
Blogger Tomate Farcie said...

Euh, guys? Take it easy!! This post was supposed to be kind of funny or something? Maybe I'll stick to iPod stories next time, uh? :-D

Dr. Denton: I think what Elizabeth was saying is that some of the questions they ask us to answer in order to demonstrate the ability to speak English are completely retarded (I'll try to locate the test for you so you can see for youself). Heck, maybe I should even make a post out of it!

One of my question was "Q: What is the benefit of obtaining US citizenship? A: you can bring your relatives to the US." I forgot the exact wording but I promise you, that's what it says, I'm not making it up! There were a few other questions just like that; believe me, that test would make you growl.

What's also insane (I'm guessing that's what Elizabeth was talking about) is when you can obviously speak English and they know that because 1) they see you arguing with them in fluent English, and/or 2) it says in the file what you do for a living and your job obviously requires being fluent in English, and/or 3) you have a US degree ... and they still make you come back for an other "appointment" MONTHS down the road so you can take the stupid English test.

(I remember asking the Clerk if they'd consider my college degree instead and they refused based on a technicality at the time.)

On the other hand, there are people who must have memorized all the answers to that stupid test and still don't understand English, and that's kind of insane, too, in my book.

I personally witnessed a naturalization ceremony in San Francisco years ago in which the Judge of the Superior Court had to read the oath for everybody and the director of the local INS said, and I quote: "We know that most of you don't speak English, so we'll read the oath for you and you'll just say "I do" at the end, just like when you got married, and those of you whose neighbor doesn't understand what I just said, go ahead and explain it to them - we'll give you a few minutes for that - and we'll get you all sworn in." And I'm not making that up either.

Now, see, that's what I have a problem with: by the time you get naturalized, you should really speak English!

Pfewww...

4:09 PM  
Blogger Michael said...

LOL tomate...now I understand your "behaving" comment on Eric's blog. People should lighten up a bit. This was an excellent post and very funny!

6:38 PM  
Blogger Elisabeth said...

I never intended to qualify Tomate as a Xenophobe. I have read her prose for quite a while by now, both here and as comments on other blogs, including mine, and I think that she is one of the most open-minded people I have ever encountered online or in real life.

However, I still maintain that the rhetoric of most (note that I am not using all of those who support the adoption of English as an official language in the U.S. tends to be anchored in xenophobic sentiment. doctordentons, I am absolutely OK with your being "leery" of me but, then again, you don't know me, do you?

And yes, I did mean to say that the hoops that people are supposed to go through to gain U.S. citizenship are rather stupid at times.

One thing that has always struck me is that when becoming a citizen, one takes an oath whereby one renounces all allegiance to any other nation - but, for example, French citizen always retain their French citizenship....

11:04 AM  
Anonymous Angelina said...

J'amène mon grain de sel perso...
Etudiante française, je travaille à Los Angeles.
C'est mon second stage en Californie.
Quel est le rapport avec la note?
Hablo español! Et c'est pour cela que mes employeurs m'a choisie parmi tous les postulants.Critère important pour mon boulot!

Ahora vengo yo con mi palabritas españolas! Bueno, saben que son 4 personas por 10 que hablan español por aqui?

1:10 AM  
Anonymous Pumpkin said...

I think it should be in English on top BIG...and Spanish translated on the bottom in small letters. I haven't got a problem with the way Spanish is kinda taking over America in that you can't call your phone company or the INS without having to push a button for English or Spanish. However, English should always be the dominate language and presented as such. I think that you made a good point in that it is for the renewal of an US passport. So, technically, it didn't need to be in Spanish at all (in my personal opinion it should not have been). Putting the Spanish letters first and so large and English underneath and small is a bit silly.

I think you made a great post as always. And, I don't see why anyone would get upset about it.

3:29 AM  
Blogger L'Amerloque said...

Salut TF ! / Hi TF !

Inutile de dire qu'il est nécessaire d'établir, une fois pour toutes, par la législation s'il le faut, que l'anglais (du moins, la variante americaine) est la langue officielle des USA. Cest dans l'interet de tous. Arretons de déplacer les lignes de but.

It goes without saying that it is necessary to establish, once and for all, by law if required, that English (at least the American variety) is the official language of the United States of America. It's in everybody's interest. We have to stop moving the goalposts.

Amerloque rejette l'argument de "xenophobie", également. Né américain, petit fils de quatre immigré(e)s aux USA au début du vingtième siècle, et résident étranger en France depuis des décennies, il trouve que ce genre de raisonnement (…/… "tends to be anchored in xenophobic sentiment" …/…) est assez primaire et ne fait pas avancer les débats. Il a vu sa propre famille apprendre l'anglais afin de s'intégrer, et il a du lui-meme apprendre le français pour vivre normalement ici.

Amerloque also rejects the "xenophobe" argument. Born in the USA, a grandchild of four immigrants who came to the USA at the beginning of the 20th century, and a foreign resident in France for decades, he finds that this type of reasoning (…/… "tends to be anchored in xenophobic sentiment" …/…) is extremely petty and does not help the discussion along. He watched his own family learn English so as to integrate successfully, and he himself had to learn French so as to reside normally here.

On peut en toute franchise et en toute légitimité poser la question d'une langue officielle. One peut également se demander ce qui se passe avec l'utilisation des déniers publiques. On peut aussi entamer une discussion sans les a priori du genre "xenophobe".

One can frankly and legitimately ask questions about an official language. One can also wonder about the use of public funds. One can also begin a discussion without prejudices such as "xenophobe".

Cordialement / Best,
L'Amerloque

7:49 AM  
Blogger Elisabeth said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9:36 AM  
Blogger Elisabeth said...

I had posted a fairly lengthy, polite, and thoughtful reply to l'Amerloque, and then deleted it, because I decided that I just cannot pursue a discussion with someone who has insulted my intelligence. Sorry. This could have been an interesting debate, if only it had remained cordial and polite.

Cordialement? Best? Yes, indeed!

J'avais écrit une réponse assez longue, polie et réfléchie à l’Amerloque, mais je l'ai enlevée parce que j’ai décidé qu'il m’est impossible de poursuivre une discussion avec une personne qui a dénigré mon intelligence. Désolée. Ça aurait pu être un débat intéressant, si seulement il avait pu rester cordial et poli.

Cordialement? Best? En effet!

9:54 AM  
Blogger L'Amerloque said...

Bonjour Elisabeth ! / Hi Elisabeth !

Amerloque voudrait bien savoir, svp, où dans son message il a "dénigré [votre] intelligence". Il ne faut pas confondre le message avec le messager, tout de meme ? Merci par avance.

Amerloque would assuredly like to know, please, where in his message he has "insulted [your] intelligence". One shouldn't mix up the message with the messenger, no ? Thanks in advance.

Cordialement/ Best,
L'Amerloque

10:10 AM  
Blogger Tomate Farcie said...

Euh, guys?!!! Maybe everybody could take a deep breath?!! Real deep? Please? :-)

I can't sit behind the computer 24/7 to monitor the blog and mediate the arguments, so please, guys, try to be ... ahem.. diplomatic with each other? :-)

Michel: That's funny! and I'm sure you're right!

Michael: Now you know why I almost deleted the post!

Elisabeth: Just for the record, I never thought for ONE MINUTE that you implied that I'm a xenophobe, so don't worry about me, we're good, no feelings hurt on my end! We've disagreed before, and it's quite alright! Thanks for the compliment about being open; I do try!

Angelina: I get your point. Where do I press #2 to continue your comment in English? ;-) Feel free contribute your 2 cents (grain de sel) anytime!

Pumpkin: Thanks for the feedback and the compliment.

Amerloque: I had no idea you read this blog! Wow. Greetings!

Guess I better run out and take a couple of cablecar pics and see if everybody calms down...

12:20 PM  
Anonymous sandrine said...

I think that there's no way around it : Spanish IS the default language here, and at some point, I see it becoming the main language. The reality is just that : you can't find a job in some fields here if you don't speak spanish. I am in social work and there is NO way they would have hired me if I did not speak Spanish. That does not mean I think it's a good thing, but that is how it is.....so yes, I can udnerstand why most documentation is in both languages now.
BTW, did you have big demonstrations agains the immigration bill in your town?

1:13 PM  
Blogger Elisabeth said...

Amerlogue - vous avez, que vous le vouliez ou non, qualifié mon raisonnement de "primaire." Si mon raisonnement est "primaire", j'en déduit que, selon vous, je suis vraiment trop conne pour raisonner à un niveau plus élevé.

Néanmoins, je ne suis pas aussi stupide que ça, et je reconnais que la communication par le truchement de commentaires sur un blogue est moins qu'idéale et porte a bien des malentendus - et je vous prie, vous et Tomate, de bien vouloir m'excuser si j'ai interprété de façon erronée votre commentaire initial et son intention.

Je propose donc que nous passions l'éponge - je respecte votre opinion, et j'accepte que vous trouviez la mienne simpliste et chargée de préjugés. Ne pensez cependant pas que je suis une personne simpliste et bourrée de préjugés.

Tomate – Désolée d’avoir causé autant de stress avec ce petit échange inflammatoire.


Amerlogue – you have, whether you want it or not, qualified my reasoning as “limited” (this is my best translation of “primaire.”) If my reasoning is “limited,” I assume that, according to you, I am definitely too stupid to reach a higher level of reasoning.

However, I am not that stupid, and I realize that communication via comments on a blog is less than ideal and can lead to many misunderstandings - and I apologize to both Tomate and you if I misunderstood your initial comment and its intent.

Thus, I propose that we wipe the slate – I respect your opinion, and I accept the fact that you find mine simplistic and loaded with prejudice. However, do not think that I am a simplistic person ridden with prejudices.

Tomate – Sorry to have caused you so much grief with this little flaming session.

1:51 PM  
Anonymous rosette said...

Naturalisée américiane, peut-être mais encore râleuse comme une française!

3:08 PM  
Blogger Tomate Farcie said...

Sandrine : You're right, Spanish is a very important language here and we should probably all learn it as a second language. But I still maintain that if you want a US passport, you have to be able to function in English. Sorry! :)

About the demonstrations, I'm not aware of anything going on here in the Bay Area but I haven't read the paper yet, so, sorry, I don't know. They was a large demonstration in Los Angeles (8 hour drive from here) on Saturday, though. See articles and pictures here: http://tinyurl.com/f3juy

Elisabeth: Don't worry about me, I'm good! And you don't owe me any apology. I threw a "controversial" one out there so I guess I should apologize to you guys for that (because I knew that a post like that contained a high potential for dissent and possibly ruffled feathers in the end). But anything you say, lately, has this potential, so what are we supposed to do?!

By the way, I hope you (and anybody else reading this) understand that by arguing with you (or anybody else) about my position on this issue (or another one in the future), I am only defending an idea I believe in and not attacking you as a person.

Rosette: Les bonnes habitudes, ça se perds pas comme ça!

6:27 PM  
Blogger Michael said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:05 PM  
Blogger Michael said...

Michael said...
Tomate...can I just saying something that might offend you as a blogger, provoke you as a person, or encourage you as an individual???

ISROTFLMGO!

(I'm still Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Guts Out!)

Please, please, please don't start "behaving".

8:07 PM  
Blogger camionneuse said...

HOu la la! Quelle discusion!

Aux États-Unis, ça prendra bientôt une loi 101 comme celle du Québec. Il n'y a aucune xénophobie la-dedans, seulement une protection pour mieux préserver le français au Québec. L'affichage doit se faire en français d'abord et ensuite dans la langue de votre choix. Cela vaut pour tous les prospectus, les affichages de commerce, la langue et les communications de travail, l'obligation pour les immigrants de parler le français (ils n'ont pas le droit d'inscrire leurs enfants dans une école publique anglaise seulement s'ils sont nés de parent anglophone québécois.)

Qu'est-ce que la loi 101: http://www.thecanadapage.org/Sep2Fr.htm.

Sinon, ça devient invivable! La langue d'un pays c'est sacré. Sans rejeter l'espagnol qui a sa place, mais qui doit venir en second lieu, comme toutes les autres langues.

Sandra

8:46 AM  
Blogger diopter said...

As a New Yorker, where I sometimes feel like I rarely hear English anymore, I can understand your rants and I agree with you. Yes, this country is huge and it is a melting pot--based on waves of non-English-speakers, but there should be a basic commonality in language.

8:34 PM  
Blogger Sardinette said...

I would have never thought this subject would bring such controversy!!!
To answer your question Tomate yes! I was married after that, but still I wasn't laughing at all when it happened...I laugh about it now, and my husband refers to it as the chinese takout wedding, because of the language, the short ceremony, and the proximity of Oakland Chinatown!

I think that it's really cool that people are debating and exchanging ideas , in my opinion, that is when a blog does its job,but always stay cool, it's just ideas... ;)

11:37 AM  
Blogger Tomate Farcie said...

I would have never thought this subject would bring such controversy!!!

Honestly, neither did I. I expected maybe a couple of snide comments directed at me, such as "hey you don't speak much English yourself" or something like that, but hey, I guess that you never know.

5:27 PM  
Blogger MRCSTHEKID said...

Hi there, umm... hello Farcie, you know what, I think this post rather cool, and you're cool, too, for you can use French well.
Ohhh! Simply want to tell you one thing, that is, if, I am President Bush, that I'll definitely be able to address the nation in Chinese Mandarin, do you think that's a good idea? hahahahahaaa... xD (don't call me childish...)

Oh, I knew your blog through Eric's, and today I realised that it's such a good one, for the host- you, Farcie is in my opinion, observant and talented. Hope you keep the good job! Well, it wouldn't hurt the lawn if you watered it more often.

This is MarucsTheKid.

5:44 AM  

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